Successful… Until You’re Not (Career Wake-Up Call) With guest expert, Lyndsay Dowd

Lyndsay Dowd:

I had this really lovely legacy and this really decorated career. But at the end of 23 years, I was ready for a change and another company sought me out and said, would you come and lead a sales team for us? So I took my big blue legacy and off I went.

And in six short months, they fired me. 

And I was gutted. And it took me about 30 days to get up the guts to talk about it. And once I started actually telling people what happened, the reaction was like, you don’t get fired? What? I can’t believe this. And that of course makes you feel a little bit better. But I had to turn that into purpose.

Blake Schofield:

Real leadership. Real life. Real impact. No more choosing between your career and your life. Here you’ll find honest conversations, science-backed strategies, and inspiring stories to help you thrive at work and truly enjoy your life outside of it. 

I’m your host, Blake, and I’m honored to help you create more impact with ease.

Blake Schofield:

On today’s episode, I interview my friend, Lyndsay Dowd. She’s a speaker, founder, author, coach, and podcast host, and unapologetic disruptor. With nearly 30 years of leadership experience, including 23 at IBM, she’s built and led high-performing teams that consistently deliver results. She’s also served as a guest lecturer at Harvard University, sharing her insights on modern leadership and culture transformation.

As the founder of Heartbeat for Hire, Lindsay helps companies ditch toxic leadership and build irresistible cultures that drive performance, retention and impact. And she’s been featured in Fortune Magazine, HR.com, ABC, Fox, CBS and over a hundred podcasts. She’s a two-time bestselling author of Top Down Culture and Voices of Women and host.

The globally ranked and two times awarded Heartbeat for Hire podcast sitting in the top two and a half percent worldwide. She’s also the host of a weekly live show on LinkedIn called The Leadership Lounge. Lindsay and I sat down and talked all things, career reinvention, career branding, and how and why it’s so important to show up in an authentic way to be able to create your highest impact in your career.

And what are some of the things that have shifted in our work environment and how can we make sure that we are setting ourselves up for success, really being empowered to own our careers and our futures? I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Blake (00:01.59)

Lindsay, I’m so happy to have you here today. Thank you for joining me for this conversation.

Lyndsay Dowd (00:07.346)

I have been so looking forward to this, Blake. I adore you and I’m so excited to be on your gorgeous show.

Blake (00:15.714)

Thank you. You and I share so many of the same value systems and both came from big, big companies before really taking our learnings from leadership and from caring about people into the work we do today. But I know that nobody else listening does. So would you mind sharing a little bit about you and your background and how you ended up doing the work that you do today?

Lyndsay Dowd (00:43.796)

Yeah, I’d love to. So yeah, like you said, I started in corporate. I spent 25 years in corporate America and 23 of those years were spent climbing the ranks at IBM, otherwise known as Big Blue. And I came from a very big blue legacy. My family put in 105 years there. So I was the last one standing. And at the end of 23 years, and by the way, when I say 23 years, it wasn’t 23 years doing one job. You know, every

Two and a half to three years, I did something else and I was the one that was tapped on the shoulder to do the first of a kind businesses, to fix the broken programs, to build something from scratch. And so I had this really lovely legacy and this really decorated career. But at the end of 23 years, I was ready for a change and another company sought me out and said, would you come and lead a sales team for us? So I took my big blue legacy and off I went.

And in six short months, they fired me. And I was gutted. And I took it really, really personally because I was used to doing hard things. I was the one you tapped when you wanted to do something different, original, creative. Like that was my jam. And the woman that fired me wanted a micromanager and she did not value EQ at all. And so that was a blow.

And it took me about 30 days to get up the guts to talk about it. And once I started actually telling people what happened, the reaction was like, you don’t get fired? What? I can’t believe this. And that of course makes you feel a little bit better. But I had to turn that into purpose. And so I asked myself three questions. What am I really good at? What do I love to do? And how can I help people the most? And that part was really important to me.

And so I knew I was really good at building modern leaders and creating irresistible culture that drives results. And so I started my company Heartbeat for Hire. I bet on myself, which was something I never did because, you know, anyone that knows when you’re in corporate, you know, you’ll get development budgets, but you go do a class that they pay for. You go do programming that exists. Like it’s not…

Lyndsay Dowd (03:07.826)

I’m going to hire a coach for myself and I’m going to work on myself like that. Those things that wasn’t a real concept back when, when I was in the throngs of it all. So, that was four years ago. And so I started Heartbeat for Hire. I started coaching C suites and individual leaders and I started keynote speaking and I wrote a couple of books and I started a podcast and a live show and I teach LinkedIn workshops and storytelling workshops and probably few other things, but those are kind of the highlights. So it’s been a wild and crazy ride, one I never could have predicted, but I’m really glad for that shove out of the nest that I got.

Blake (03:48.174)

Thank you for sharing that. I felt all the feels as you talked about the experience of transitioning into a new role and very quickly having a very confidence breaking experience and having been through some of that myself as well as helped so many people through that. When that moment comes, where you’ve been successful your whole career and you get the shock of whether it is a performance plan, even though you’ve been a top performer or it’s a leader that comes in and you’re really struggling to work with or an organization that values different things than you value, but maybe you didn’t see it coming in. 

It can be really earth-shaking and also to your point can be, I think, one of the greatest moments for us to get truly clear on who we are and what matters to us and start to redefine how we’ve defined ourselves. And so I remember in 2020 very clearly seeing when COVID hit that my prior industry, retail, was going to get hit very, very heavily.

I could clearly see what was happening and I realized, wow, there were going to be a lot of people who are going to have to change industries because this industry is going to shrink. And actually within being a quick start and innovator as I am an uncertainty, I immediately started doing live Q and A’s and teaching people how to protect their career and what to do next. it was, thank you. It was,

Lyndsay Dowd (05:33.609)

I love that you said that. so good.

Blake (05:38.87)

I just knew in my gut it was the right thing to do for people that I saw and understood what was coming and wanted to help people get out of feeling a lack of control and stuck and waiting for whatever was going to happen while they were furloughed and be able to take back control of their careers and their lives. And, you know, I look at the circumstances that we sit in today, just, you know, six years, just barely six years out from that and I see a similar pattern in terms of how much the world is shifting, how much AI is changing the way we work, the pace of how fast everything is going. And so much is honestly breaking in terms of old systems and old ways of leading and working. And so I see a place where many are going to need to learn how to reinvent themselves or see themselves differently or navigate even in their current companies differently. And so I’m excited to have you on today actually to talk about reinvention and what do you do when these unexpected challenges come your way? What’s your perspective? You’re seeing this as well as I am. What’s your perspective on where we sit in the world of work today? 

Lyndsay Dowd (06:56.703)

Yeah.

Blake (07:07.95)

And how to get ahead, I think there’s a choice. We have a choice to reinvent. Sometimes we’re forced into it, but we also have a choice to be proactive about reinvention. I’m interested in your perspective on that.

Lyndsay Dowd (07:19.409)

Yeah, you hit on the concept earlier and the way that I talk about it, which is really simple, is there’s no such thing as job security. There’s only career security and you have to build that for yourself. And when you can do that and when you are really true to yourself, you understand your true north, what makes you tick, those questions that I asked myself earlier, you know, what am I really good at? What do I love to do? Those are the things that you want to start talking about and those are not set in stone. Those change over time. It changes based on what you learn. It changes based on where you work. It changes the skills you develop. 

So just because you said that four years ago doesn’t mean that it has to be the same today. But you have to start and if you say nothing and when I say nothing I mean you’re just existing. For example we’ll use linkedin as the tool for this. but you’re out there you’re doing your job your head’s down you feel like you are indispensable. and then the riff comes the reorg comes the i’m moving you out of the business because you then they never say this you make too much money you’re on the more senior end of the age bracket that we’ve got here. I just watched a lot of friends just get moved out of jobs and forced retirement. And they’re all kind of scratching their heads and they’re calling me and they’re like, what do I do? I’m not ready to retire yet. And so I have a real soft spot for these people because I know what that feeling is like, oh my gosh, I’ve not done any of this work.

I haven’t put myself out there. Yeah, I have a LinkedIn profile, but all I did was post when I got promoted or reshare the marketing stuff from my company. And so it’s never too late to start, but just start. And your page doesn’t have to be perfect. Your website doesn’t have to be built. You do not have to have an LLC or a mission, but you should start talking about what’s important to you. And the coolest part about LinkedIn is you don’t even have to post to grow. 

So I just had a LinkedIn workshop with a dear friend this week and he was a restaurateur and he’s never had a LinkedIn profile and he’s changing direction. And so we really kind of went from top to bottom of all of the things he needs to pay attention to and why. And I just watched him today just out commenting on things. He commented on my post, on a friend’s post that he wasn’t connected to. He’s like, was that okay? And I’m like, yeah, it was perfect. It was great. It showed who you were. It showed your sense of humor and you’re gonna end up being connected to the person that posted it and to anybody else that thought it was entertaining. And so he’s, you know, he’s starting from scratch. He’s just building it, but he’s doing it the right way with the right foundation. And it’s never too late to do that. And by the way, the shove out of the nest that I got, I was 50.

when that happened. So it is you are not too old, you are not too tired, you have plenty still to say, and you have wisdom that the younger generations could really learn from.

Blake (10:51.682)

Yeah, it’s such an interesting thing. I was one of the early adopters of LinkedIn. I think I’ve been on it since maybe like 2005, like really early. And at the time, my brother-in-law, who is an entrepreneur and really was ahead of the game, was like, you should be on this thing. And I just joined because basically I trusted him. And it’s amazing to watch the evolution of LinkedIn.

Lyndsay Dowd (11:00.213)

Yeah, it was 2006. He said so.

Blake (11:21.484)

Right? You know, like nine years ago when I became an entrepreneur, it was a great place to be, but very few people were posting. And then in the last number of years, it sort of became this place of a lot of spammy sales and stuff that wasn’t super great. And, now I feel like it’s moving to more of a dinner party type of experience where you can see it differently. Go ahead.

Lyndsay Dowd (11:36.371)

Yeah, the pitch slaps.

Lyndsay Dowd (11:47.114)

Well, thing, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I think the thing that people are craving is connection and LinkedIn is an extraordinarily easy place to connect with people. It is no longer a house for your resume. This is a platform for expertise and you know stuff. So it’s okay to talk about it. But yes, the pitch slaps are alive and well despite all of my best efforts.

And my out of office message, which is very specific to pitch slapping. So if you want to see what it is, connect with me, send me a message. You’ll find out it’s very funny. But that is all still happening. But what’s also happening are these incredible connections. People get very inspired by what it is you say and they reach out to you and they say, hey, can I do a coffee chat? Can we just get to know each other a little better? And this is how we met.

This is how a lot of the people in our community have met and it’s really an easy place to spend time and connect with people. And I think I find it easier than Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Longer form is welcome, video is welcome, pictures are welcome. But it’s nice that there’s a mix. And I think Instagram is mostly, you know, pictures and video and maybe a little bit of text.

Facebook is kind of like the old farts and my history, my parents, friends, that kind of vibe. And then TikTok I’m on because my kids are on it. yeah, I think LinkedIn is for professional, for anyone that’s starting a business, for anyone who’s making a career change, it’s a wonderful place to be. And I’m not being played by LinkedIn.

Blake (13:35.598)

Yeah, I agree. you know, I agree. It’s an interesting thing even in the last year. I think what’s happening on social media and our awareness of how unhealthy in a lot of cases social media can be. LinkedIn feels like one of the safer places to be as well. Like you’re not as bombarded with some of the things you get on the other platform.

But like I said, what I also have seen with LinkedIn is, you know, several years ago, there was discussion, okay, if you’re a professional, get your page set up correctly and your resume and all of these things. But it was great, maybe if recruiters were going to reach out to you, but it wasn’t really about being shown as a thought leader, developing your and continuing to engage and nurture your network, finding new connections that valued what you valued or might have interesting experiences. And I definitely have seen it shift in that way where I think it’s more accessible. It feels less intimidating. 

And so I really, I would love to dive into this because I think that it’s something that plays into your natural strengths. And often when I see people who are naturally good at this, I’m always like, we can learn something great from somebody who’s really learned how to master it. But whether you’re at a place listening to this where you did get a shock and you need to reinvent yourself, or you’re at a place where you’re worried about that because you see what’s coming and you want to make sure that you’re relevant, you can protect your career, or you’re in a job and you’re happy doing what you’re doing, but you want to start the work to be able to ensure that you have the ability to control the trajectory of your career.

I think in every one of these circumstances, this conversation and how you can leverage LinkedIn to begin to do that in a more impactful way is valid and important for every one of those groups.

Lyndsay Dowd (15:42.964)

Yeah, I think when you surround yourself with like-minded people, it feels super warm and super connected. And to somebody just starting out, they might not get there. They might have like a thousand people that they’ve worked with, but are these the people that would talk about them when they’re not in the room? I don’t know. And so you really want to start to be intentional with if you are out there and you see some really positive post and it’s no one you’re connected to maybe it’s a third connection or a second connection and you like what they say go comment just say it this really resonated with me because and when you can first of all you’re never going to go write great post because that adds no value and it doesn’t make you look good you are going to say something smart about why it mattered to you, what about it spoke to you. 

And it doesn’t have to be a big fat essay, but it certainly can be funny. You can be a little lightning rod to, you know, kind of drum up some more conversation. You can add to it and say, and this is one more thing I would add to whatever you’re saying. But that’s a really easy way to dip your toe in the water and start to make some new warm connections. But any time, if I do a post, and someone sends me a DM and says, oh my gosh, that post that you did today resonated with me so much. Thank you. And let me tell you why. I am totally happy to offer time to that person to better get to know them, to understand what’s going on with them. 

First of all, I don’t know if they’ll ever be a client. They could be so, so interesting. I might want them on my show. I might be able to connect them with someone else that they need to be connected to. And I do really believe that when you get to a certain season in your life, it is your responsibility to pay it forward. It is on you to share the wealth, share the love, share the knowledge because people didn’t do that for us. And the ones who helped me, I never forget, I talk about them and celebrate them always. But there were so many lessons that I feel like I could have benefited from. 

Lyndsay Dowd (18:09.765)

I wrote a post today about burnout isn’t sexy, saying I’m exhausted, saying I’m tired. That’s not great leadership. That’s just you’re showing you can’t manage your calendar. And I really wanted that to be a lightning rod for people. They’re like, oof, yeah, I’m doing too much of that. I need some more inner work. I need some more time to get my house in order and I’ll be a better leader because of it. That wasn’t a conversation for us, Blake, ever.

I mean, we lived in a hustle culture. That was what we knew. That was how we operated. And to say, I’m so busy, that was a badge of honor. And it’s not a badge of honor. It’s stupid. you know, having a conversation like that, I’m trying to create a dialogue. I’m trying to get people to connect to that message because it’s a benefit to them.

So everybody has something they can say. I have a girlfriend who I adore and every week she does what’s for dinner posts. And she talks about five recipes she’s making for the week. Now she does tons of other content about go to market content, sales, women in sales, like really cool stuff. But everyone loves her recipes. And if she hasn’t done it in a while, people start complaining about it. Now is that business content? No, but they love it.

And I always say it’s so important to add some of the personal to what it is you’re doing. So in my profile, it says wiener dog lover and mom of twins. And the amount of people that reach out to me on those two things is staggering. But the reason why it’s a softball, it’s easy. I’m making myself relatable and easy to connect to. And that’s really, I think what we have to do for everybody.

If you are nervous and you’re afraid to share, you’re not going to be in that position where you’re going to be like, sure I’m an open book, I’ll tell you everything. You’re still trying to figure it out. But if you say like, I break for sushi or you know, bungee jumping is my jam or you know, I like a dirty soda. Like those are interesting, funny, quirky things that invite people to connect with you. So I’m trying to portray

Lyndsay Dowd (20:30.921)

This is not as hard as you think.

Blake (20:34.171)

I think you shared so much that I’m going to try and go backwards and hopefully I don’t miss all the things that came in my head. I’m going to back up into the conversation around burnout because I think that there’s absolutely worth talking about. You are right. 

Blake (20:57.967)

I think that in old structures being seen as most committed, working the most amount of hours, et cetera, was seen as a badge of honor. And I’ll never forget in 2010 when I moved from JCPenney and went to Target. At JCPenney, I’d been working 70 hours a week for seven years. Top performer inside the organization, but at a very large personal cost, right? I remember thinking at the time I was either 32 or 33. I remember thinking at the time, like, I’m gonna have a heart attack before I’m 50 if I keep doing this. And when I moved to Target, the mentality was, if you’re working that amount of hours, something is wrong with your ability to prioritize and do your job. And there were no meetings Fridays, and there was a very clear understanding that if you were emailing at weird off hours, that was problematic because you were creating a scenario where people then that you worked with believed that they needed to be working those hours. So in the times when I did need to do some of those things, I would schedule the emails to go out at like 8 a.m. so that they weren’t being sent, you know, at weird times. And one of the things I think is really important is to be able to understand about shifting our perspective about this. 

Blake (22:23.311)

I had a conversation recently where the person I was talking to was actually talking about the pressure happening with the different generations across organizations today. And I think this is one big one to talk to, because it links, is that the younger generation has been taught, like, nope, it’s really about the value I drive, not about the amount of hours. I’m going to be efficient and I’m going to have some boundaries in terms of my life and my work. 

Blake (22:50.923)

As you get up the ladder and up the higher ranks, there is more of that old mentality around you have to put in your time and you haven’t suffered enough. And then those that are in the middle are trying to deal with these very different perspectives about what work should look like. And so when we talk about this mentality around it’s how hard you push and hustle versus

Lyndsay Dowd (22:59.443)

Enjoy. Both.

Blake (23:19.523)

How do I create the biggest impact and results in the most efficient way? We also have to acknowledge that there are a lot of beliefs that are attached to that old mentality or the mentality that you and I were taught. And so I remember when I was in Target and was challenged, you can’t work 70 hours a week anymore and get this job done. My biggest fear was if I stopped contributing in this way, my results would drop.

I would not be as successful. People would think I was not as committed and I wouldn’t be able to deliver. And I think it’s important to talk about that because if you’re in a scenario today where you are feeling burned out and you realize what you’re doing isn’t sustainable, I want you to know it’s not just about tactics and strategies. It’s not just about, I need boundaries and I just need to put in a more structured calendar. You also have to deal with the beliefs and the conditioning and the fears that are going to come up as you start to learn how to show up and lead differently. And I think often people don’t talk about that. Obviously that’s a big part of the work that I do is helping people navigate that change through small adjustments so that you can begin to gain evidence that what you’re doing is safe, that by giving yourself more space and time to take care of yourself and be strategic, you actually deliver better results.

Lyndsay Dowd (24:33.781)

Yes.

Blake (24:47.555)

But it’s a transformation that happens. doesn’t just flip a switch. We have to begin to gain experiences.

Lyndsay Dowd (24:50.901)

No, and yes, I have so much to say about this. I mean, I had a leader once who told me, Lindsay, they will take as much as you give. So stop being the person that is first to respond to the email. Stop being the person that is first to raise their hand. Just take a breath. Listen. Wait, because somebody else might give an answer you weren’t thinking about. And to train myself to not be that me, I gotta show up. That took a minute for me to get, but once I got it, guys, I wanna tell you, as much as you think your company is loyal to you, they’ll move you out in a heartbeat. So stop giving them your life, your health, your mental wellbeing, just stop. Only you can take care of that. They won’t do it for you.

And I will say, I had to manage multiple generations when I was a leader at IBM and, you know, people in their late sixties and early twenties and everything in between and how you described it was spot on. But there was still lessons to be learned on both sides. And, you know, I had a young person show up to an in-person meeting in shorts and we’re in corporate office and I pulled him aside. I’m like no one else is going to tell him so I’m going to have to do it. 

So I said hey listen you know really happy you’re here it’s great to meet you but I do want to let you know that it is not okay to wear shorts into this office building and he’s like but these are my dressy shorts. Oh well maybe they’re great for golf but they’re probably not great for this and I hope you’re taking this in the right spirit. 

And then I had people on the other end and the pace of some of the work that we were doing, know, when you grow up and tack your use to it, but some of the skills that the younger folks were bringing to the table was really new. And so having that grace and, you know, really saying, you know, these are things that we all can do and trying to level the playing field for everyone really kind of helps. 

But yeah, you have to be a really gracious leader when you’re managing that wide of an age gap. And I would just say for anyone at any age, just start, just start, just start thinking about what you give to the world, what you’re passionate about, what you’ve observed. know, storytelling is the best way to sell and you know, I’ve seen probably three posts in the last week about experiences, like client services experiences, either checking into a hotel or on a plane or in a store. Everybody’s done these things. 

So we all have something to say about it or a story to add. And that’s such an easy way to start, especially if you can talk about a great experience you’ve had. So think about that as you’re starting to think about your content.

and when you can create a space that’s positive for people that’s always going to land better then i’m the one who bitches because that’s not a great look.

Blake (28:21.017)

The second piece of what you had originally, think you’re moving us back to, which is great and reminds me is this idea of showing a more holistic view of who you are. How can you allow people to connect to the fact that you’re a mom of twins or that you love coffee or whatever those things are? And again, I think that is something that has shifted a lot in the workforce. When you and I started working,

Lyndsay Dowd (28:46.997)

100%.

Blake (28:48.895)

Work and personal life were very separate. I still see people say like you shouldn’t bring your personal life to work. But the reality is, and all the data supports, that environments where you feel like you can be who you are create better outcomes. That people love going to work with people that they trust and that they feel supported by. And I think a big part of stepping into authentic, sustainable leadership is the ability to show those elements of yourself and the things that you’ve learned that were your mistakes, the things that maybe aren’t your strengths and how you’ve learned to lean on or work with other people. It normalizes the human experience and it creates an environment where people trust you. 

Blake (29:47.866)

And that is all of the data has shown that forever to be the case. And I think that’s also true when you start looking at social media and building your career brand. People relate to other people who are experiencing what they’ve experienced or who can share the challenges that they’ve been through or the insights or perspectives that they have. And like I said, I think that that’s a big shift for people who are, now, Gen X and up.

Lyndsay Dowd (29:50.207)

So true.

Blake (30:15.439)

Because we didn’t grow up like that. We’ve had to learn how to do that.

Lyndsay Dowd (30:17.235)

No, we really didn’t. We really didn’t. And you know, I have a great example. had a leader who was new to me. She had a good reputation, but she was definitely a new people leader. And it was a little rough at the start. And she I could sense she was like, I need to prove myself. I need to show up. And then a couple of months in, she told this story about how she was raised by two deaf parents. And so she was a CODA, child of deaf adults. And once she’d shared that, I’m like, so you’re fluent in ASL. And she’s like, yeah, I am. And all of a sudden, I was so much more interested in her. I was more sympathetic to her experience. I was curious about what she brought to the table. And it made me lean in. And it made me want to know more about her. And it made me trust her more.

And so when you can share those things, I mean, your point is so well taken of, know, Gen X and above, we were told separation of church and state, you you do not, you, do not bring your personal life to work. And that comes from an old manufacturing paradigm with punch cards. You punch in, you do your shift, you go. But the landscape has changed and the way people want to be led has changed.

So being that authentic person, creating space for people to feel safe, which is exactly what that is doing. You’re creating psychological safety, whether you know it or not, by sharing a story about yourself and your experience and especially a failure, you are creating a safe space for people to grow and also fail and also learn. And so when you can do that, that makes you a really great leader, and anyone can be a leader. You don’t have to have just the title to do that. So I love that technique and I love doing it you know on a platform like LinkedIn and I think the people that share those stories I have a bunch of friends who have shared really vulnerable, vulnerable stories and ended up gaining like thousands of followers with that one post.

Lyndsay Dowd (32:35.669)

Now if that’s what you’re after and you want to grow, go for it! If you want a meaningful connection, that’s a different approach but both are valid and fine.

Blake (32:50.177)

It’s interesting when you look at the world of work today, I think this is true across the board. like yesterday I was talking to my oldest, he’s a sophomore in college and actually today he is going to a career fair. And so he pulled out the resume that he had put together his senior year in like his career class and he’s like, Hey mom, could you give me 10 minutes of feedback, which turned into 40. 

That’s another story. But as we started working through it, you know, was the same feedback I’ve always given. mean, I started doing resumes in HR, you know, at the beginning of my career. And it’s the thing that I’ve consistently helped clients with is how do you understand how to position yourself in the market? How do you drive results? What types of results do you drive? And then what is actually unique or interesting about you? And so it was interesting going through this with a 20 year old to be able to take, know, like he does door dash.

Lyndsay Dowd (33:44.405)

Yes.

Blake (33:48.369)

So it’s like, okay, this is your first job with like a larger company. How can you show that you have moved up and you have achieved something? So, you know, he achieved like platinum status, which is like a small percentage and you have to have very high customer ratings, et cetera. So I’m like, put that on there because that shows that not just did you take this job, but you did the work to become a top performer and you are reliable and you’re doing a great job.

Lyndsay Dowd (34:04.9)

Exciting.

Hell yeah!

Blake (34:16.112)

And so as we started going through those, some of what came up was like my son as a result of his interest and his he’s a natural planner, he thinks strategically and long term. He was able during his high school career to go to five different entrepreneurial events with me. He also was a founding member of an organization that was teaching kids financial literacy, emotional intelligence and leadership development.

Blake (34:44.928)

He did so well on that that he was selected to be a mentor and he actually had the opportunity to come do a public speaking event where he was showcasing his success story and communicating how he applied these things to over 50 different people. And I said, these things are like highly unique. There aren’t a lot of kids at 20 years old. 

Lyndsay Dowd (35:06.837)

That’s incredible. So much to be proud of. Wow. Love it.

Blake (35:11.352)

He’s such a great kid. And I said, these are really unique things about you that you’ve experienced that you want to be able to share in your resume. And you want people to know about you that these are things you’re passionate about and that you’ve experienced and that you’ve done. And yes, you’re going into a career fair where they’re probably looking to hire juniors or seniors. But take the fact that you are a sophomore who clearly is driven and does things ahead of the curve and shows up as a leader and put that to your advantage. Help them see what’s unique about you. 

And I just tie that because I think these principles are timeless. They exist no matter what age you are, no matter where you are in your career journey. Being able to help him understand that these unique things that you’ve done matter and they create a talking point for somebody to start that conversation in the same way you talked about your kids or your interests create that talking point.

Lyndsay Dowd (36:12.607)

Yeah, first of all, bravo to your son for having an interest in having a mom to help guide him. That is some pretty spectacular stuff that he was into and that’s gonna serve him really well. My nephew was doing an internship in New York City his freshman year in college during that summer.

The bank that he was working for loved him so much that they said, know, Colby, I know you’re only a freshman, but you did so well that we will help you find a job here or any other bank you choose because we were so impressed by you. Okay, he’s a freshman. That’s a summer internship. Like that’s really good. And so for him,

You we dusted off LinkedIn and I’m like every single person that you talk to at that bank, you make sure you’re connected to them. You make sure that they know you’re out there. Like this is important for you to build your network and you connect to every professor and you connect to every student you come across. like those will serve you later. They remember you when you show up and you do these extraordinary things. And the DoorDash stat, amazing. So good.

So he should, he needs to have all that on his LinkedIn too.

Blake (37:30.864)

That’s right. You’re right. I need to go back and be like, make sure you’re updating. but yeah, it’s, it’s a thing that I think so many of us have not been taught to do or, know, what I commonly heard, when I worked at target and some of it’s a Midwest thing. but I still have heard for nine years working with my clients is, know, I don’t like, I don’t like bragging or I don’t like, talking about myself and, yes. What do you say?

Lyndsay Dowd (37:34.143)

Yeah.

Lyndsay Dowd (37:53.376)

Talking about myself. You know what I say to that? So, okay, what I say to that is, you know, were you top 1 % at DoorDash? Were you platinum at DoorDash? Yes, that’s a fact. That’s not a feeling. We talk about facts here. So if I’m telling you I got an award for blah, blah, blah, that’s a fact. I’m not saying, hey, I’m the most winningest podcaster on earth. Like that sounds ridiculous. You sound like a total douche.

But if you come at it from, yeah, I have a two-time award-winning podcast. Yeah, I’m proud of that. But I’m not like shoving it in your face. I’m just saying what it is. And whenever you can kind of simplify it, no, these are facts. I went to the President’s Club how many times? That’s a fact. That’s good. People want to know that. And it’s important to talk about it.

Blake (38:48.578)

I agree and I also see it from this standpoint. We live in a really busy world, right? Each job people are applying for is at minimum of 250 people, if not in upwards. When you don’t communicate to people, what is unique about who you are, how you create results, what you value, how you show up in the world, people, you create a huge burden for them to have to try and figure it out.

So what you’re doing is actually hurting the other person because you aren’t giving them information to make the right decision. I often describe it like this, years ago I went to buy a camera and I think it was in like Best Buy or whatever, right? And the first salesperson that came up was like, you’re looking for a camera, great, let me know if you need any help. There were hundreds of cameras. How did I know what the right camera was? It’s so overwhelming. I had somebody else come up and start asking me questions.

Lyndsay Dowd (39:19.337)

All right.

Blake (39:47.257)

What kind of camera have you used? What type of photography do you do? What are you using it for? Do you have a budget? What matters to you? And in that timeframe, I had actually had a really large DSR. It was heavy and it was creating a lot of physical pain for me. So was like, I actually want a camera that’s lighter weight. And I take a lot of pictures and I want to be able to digitally upload them.

Lyndsay Dowd (39:50.975)

What are you using it for? Yeah.

Blake (40:12.484)

Those two facts then helped that same person say, are your five cameras. Yeah, these five cameras are your best cameras and here’s why. And here’s the different factors that would help you make a decision on what’s best for you. And I think about positioning in the same way. If you are not able to communicate these facts about who you are, what you’ve accomplished, how you work.

Lyndsay Dowd (40:15.463)

Narrows the category for sure, yes.

Blake (40:38.862)

You’re literally leaving somebody with hundreds of cameras and the hope that they are going to figure out that you’re the right one. That is not setting that person up for success. And it’s definitely not setting you up for success. But when you can be so crystal clear that you are best for this type of organization in this type of way, and this is how you work best, the person that’s looking for that, man, it’s an immediate, this is my person. And there’s such resonance with that.

Not only is it so critical on how we’re positioning ourselves, but what I know to be true is it’s really critical in our fulfillment and our happiness in our career and our ability to drive our results because that lack of alignment, as you mentioned in the job that you moved to, you moved underneath a leader who did not value what you valued at all. And that was a very difficult and painful experience.

Lyndsay Dowd (41:31.771)

100%. Yeah. And you know, you can’t predict how those things are going to go. So I thought that because someone I knew had asked me to come over, that I was coming to a safe space and I was going to be given grace to learn the job. any reasonable executive knows it takes six months for a new one to find the bathroom. 

So six months is not an appropriate amount of time to bring someone into an entirely new environment and be like, should be golden now. It’s just not realistic. There’s too many new systems to learn. There’s politics to learn. There’s just so much. And so they did not set me up for success and it was not a good match at all, but I couldn’t have predicted that. you know, it’s since has taught me that you have to ask different questions. You have to really ask for referrals, have to ask, know, what do you know about this? Tell me, you know, what’s your style of managing? What do you do when you get really upset? And ask if you can talk to people on the team, because they’ll tell you, honestly, and if they’re really disgruntled, you’ll hear it. So it’s important. But any leader that says they don’t want you to talk to people on the team, run. It’s definitely not a good spot. So go.

Blake (42:56.304)

100%. And what I would also say is every, what I know to be true is in every interaction, whether it is an interview inside your company to move to work for another leader or another area of the company, or you’re interviewing for another company entirely, there are clues along that process about how things are done, what the expectations are, how you’re going to be treated. And that is always the best case scenario.

Whatever you’re experiencing is best case scenario, but often what I see is people are so focused on selling the other person that they don’t realize they’re also a decision maker in that. And are they looking at things and really saying, how does this feel to me? And what do I need to know? And what concerns or questions might I have? It’s fascinating as somebody, you know, I worked at five different retailers across 18 years.

Lyndsay Dowd (43:34.015)

That’s right.

Blake (43:49.777)

And what I started to develop through that journey was an understanding of why and how people move to roles and then it wasn’t the right fit, right? It’s like 40 % of people that move companies, it’s not the right fit and they don’t last a year. so I, and it’s extremely costly. Yep. Extremely costly for HR, very emotionally costing for the individual. And if they’ve moved even more so for that. 

Lyndsay Dowd (44:03.413)

That’s a big number.

Blake (44:18.06)

And when I started to be able to identify and dissect was a deeper level analysis on how do you really understand who you are and how you work best and how do you understand the right questions to dive and ask that of the organization or the leader you would work with to drastically reduce that risk. So many of us learn that like you did through the school of hard knocks. I did too. But I would also say for people who have that fear of like, or believe that they can’t control or predict those things. I’ve actually found that not to be true.

Lyndsay Dowd (44:32.661)

That’s right. Yeah.

Blake (44:47.47)

You actually can.

Lyndsay Dowd (44:47.761)

Yeah, I also encourage people to make a pros and cons list of all the things you’ve ever loved about every job you’ve ever had and all the things you never want to do again and when you’re looking at that job description people put on the rose-colored glasses they see the top three things and they’re like look at the money look at the job this looks great not realizing that like the rest of it is all shit you hate like that’s that’s not a good move that like you you really need to take a step back and look really clearly at the position and I think a lot of people don’t do that they get shiny penny excitement and they’re like it’s an opportunity they’re interested in me they want me 

I can put up with the bad stuff look every every role is gonna have some warts it’s just the way it is no leader is perfect no company’s perfect but at least limit the things that you can so you’re not jumping into a job that’s going to be a disaster.

Blake (45:50.49)

Yes, and to your point, understand what is negotiable and not negotiable. And that’s really specific to you. That thing might be OK to somebody else, but might actually be a game changer for you in terms of like, that’s an absolute no. But I didn’t know that.

Lyndsay Dowd (46:05.269)

Yeah, 60 % travel and you have little kids, like that’s a really bad idea.

Blake (46:09.739)

Yeah. And to your point, how much of it is like really getting into what is the day to day actually look like? I was a, you know, a merchant or a buyer in four of the five organizations I worked in. The job description was the same, the role and what it was like on a day to day basis, entirely different. And so I think sometimes there’s a lot of assumptions of, know what this role is. I’ve done this before. 

It’s our assumptions that put us into the trouble because we are making a lot of, I’ve worked with this person before, so I assume it’s going to be in the same page and they know how I work and what I value. I’ve been in this industry or this category and so I know what it’s gonna be and so a lot of times I think we end up in those circumstances because to your point, we’re looking too high level but then we are making a lot of assumptions without verifying our assumptions true.

Lyndsay Dowd (46:48.373)

That’s what I did. Bad, bad.

Lyndsay Dowd (47:05.269)

Agreed. Agreed. That was beautifully said.

Blake (47:06.799)

Thank you for some of what I think you’re really teaching around reinvention and you’re teaching around. Career branding and positioning can help people move into more aligned relationships and more aligned leadership partnerships and more aligned career opportunities more naturally too. Because if you are somebody who really values work-life balance. And everyone can say they value work-life balance, but what I have learned is that it looks different for every single person. But maybe work-life balance for you really is like a company that when you are sick or your kids have things, you get the time off. And they actually come up and they have somebody to support and take over your work. If you are talking about those kinds of things and you’re finding people that value that, guess what?

There may be opportunities in the future to partner or work with somebody. And it’s already obvious because you’re talking about things that you both equally value and how you see the world of work.

Lyndsay Dowd (48:16.437)

I love how you said that. I mean, you’re echoing so much of what’s on my heart and what I want people to be thinking about. You know, one of the things that I really encourage people to do and if I was going to leave anybody, leave you with some parting words, these are the things I would want you to think about. Number one, start a side hustle.

And especially if you are gainfully employed and you have money coming in and there was something you always wished you could do. Maybe that’s baking cookies. Maybe that’s sewing something. Maybe that’s working on cars. Maybe like whatever that is. I always say to my my young 20 somethings, you you’re probably really good at editing video. And they’re like, yeah, I mean, I can do that in my sleep. I go, well, everyone over 40 sucks at it. So you have a huge customer base to work with.

And so when you can encourage people to start these things and start making a little income off of that something that you love when that change comes and it will come whether it’s forced retirement, whether it’s you you’ve been moved out of the business, you’ve been put on a pip, your job is no longer needed, you know whatever it is it will come you have something that’s just yours and you know gone are the days where

We had no moonlighting contracts back in the day. They don’t have that anymore. This is normal. So create something that’s yours and be proud of it and run with it. I gave that advice to a friend of mine. He’s just graduated college. And I told him this was the video editing example.

I said, you you’re probably excellent at this. He goes, no, I’m really good at it. And I said, you want to work on my show for a minute? And he’s like, yeah, I go, if you do a great video, I’m going to pimp you out to all of LinkedIn. I’m going to share you in my community. Well, guess what? He got, I think, five or six clients from that post that I made about him. And it’s now his full time gig. And he just took his first business trip to Argentina.

Lyndsay Dowd (50:26.537)

He loves what he’s doing. He’s excellent at it. The people that I referred to him are like, I love him. He does no wrong. you know, don’t be afraid to try the hard things. It’s really good for you and it’s really good for everyone else.

Blake (50:42.863)

I love that. Thank you so much for joining me today, Lindsay. I know I often say this, that in my network, you are perhaps one of the most generous in terms of connecting people and knowing and understanding the right people who can learn or grow together. And so with that said, if any of you are listening who would like to learn more from Lindsay or maybe be connected in her sphere, how can they find you?

Lyndsay Dowd (51:11.365)

Well, my website is heartbeatforhire.com. I’m on all the socials except X, so you can find all the socials there, but definitely reach out to me. Say you heard me here with Blake, and I would love to be connected. I always like adding great people to my network, and I think one of my superpowers is connecting people, so it’s a total joy to be able to do that, and would love to be connected to anyone in your audience.

Blake (51:39.599)

Thank you, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your wisdom today.

Lyndsay Dowd (51:43.837)

My pleasure, thanks for having me.

Blake (51:45.135)

Thank you!

Blake (52:07.000)

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